Vermilion High
Emerging Artists
The VH Experience:
An Interview with Producer lui
by
Thomas Gilltrap
, November 4 2025.Late last month, I sat down to interview rising hyperpop sensation and Vermilion
producer lui about working with our youth artists through the Vermilion High
program. Following their selection as promising talents earlier this year, 14 high
school students have been closely collaborating with VR’s talented team of
producers to gain expertise in professional song creation and develop their debut
singles. We discussed his approach to mentoring, collaboration, and navigating
creative identity.
Q: As an individual producer coming into this program, what were your goals when
working with these younger artists?
A: There are goals I have for my own skill set and goals I have to work towards with the
artists. Like most other producers, I want to gain experience working with people on
projects I didn’t initially conceive. Any producer who wants to be an industry
professional has to work with a variety of artists, so this program “gets us going” in
terms of producing music we normally wouldn’t.
I’m a hyperpop producer, right? I do dirty, gross, electronic pop. I was lucky enough to
work with a VH artist who wanted to go that route, but I also worked with Ruby
Elizabeth, who was far more folky and soft-spoken. It was great trying to understand
where she was coming from artistically and adapt my skillset to cater for that.
I wanted to provide a space for these students to understand themselves creatively,
because when I was that young, I didn’t know what I wanted. I had to kind of poke
and prod at their creative process in order to bring out the truest version of
themselves. The most important thing a producer can do is ask the most of their
artists, so there’s no regret or wishing they tried harder.
Q: It was a big step outside the comfort zone for many of them. Did you feel there
were any challenges or struggles?
A: Whenever I work with an artist, I always come to them and say, “Let’s look at your
arrangement and your lyricism and really understand what you’re trying to do.” A lot
of them hadn’t revisited their lyrics since first writing them, which I thought was
interesting, because everything in art can use iteration. Doing that for the first time,
some were definitely a little protective of their art, which makes sense.
Breaking down that wall was definitely something we struggled with a bit. People
can be nervous on the mic or somewhat enamoured with the studio, but the main
thing is getting people comfortable with incorporating others into their work. It can
be hard to kind of ‘kill your ego’ and find that humility about your music. I definitely
struggled with that when beginning my journey as a songwriter, but they all opened
up very quickly, because ultimately they want to make the best art they can.
Q: Were there any stand-out moments or breakthroughs?
A: Yeah, for sure. Working with Isabelle McBratney, I remember seeing her hype herself
up and deliver a really confident performance for her song 375. The song needed
that diva-like, pop-star energy in the vocal performance, and she got really into it. She
ended up doing this massive scream for the track, which was great.
When you’re doing vocals, it’s unlikely you’re going to have another recording session
unless something goes really wrong, so I think her getting comfortable on the mic
was a great moment for the process. It’s a really fun song and her vocal performance
gave exactly what it needed.
Q: Tying into that, how else did they grow as artists during the program?
A: I can’t speak for every single act, but these high schoolers... They’re really good, and
a lot of them don’t know that, right? They’re in the program for a reason, and I think
when they have the busy lives that teenagers do, they probably don’t hear enough
encouragement, so getting them in that studio environment and talking to them
about it helps them think more critically as artists.
So I think one of the main ways they’ve grown is just in confidence and validation.
Saying, “Yes, I am a musician, a songwriter, an artist. I am everything I say I am,” and
knowing that it’s worth embarking on that journey of creative expression.
The best part of the whole process for me as a producer is being able to realise
somebody’s vision and seeing that smile form on their face when you play them a
certain sound or demo. Some of them don’t collaborate too much, so it’s important
for them to work with experienced people who love music the same way they do.
Q: As a producer, how do you approach an artist’s individual sound and identity
alongside your own?
A: That’s a good question. I think I balance my tastes by trying to kill my own ego as
well, right? Understanding that they aren’t explicitly my songs and really listening to
what the artists want after helping them think hard about it.
I remember first hearing the 375 demo and having a direction for the song in mind.
Isabelle gave Sienna and me the time to explain but ultimately decided to take a
spring-breakers, party-type path. I think that was the correct decision, but I wouldn’t
have known that if we hadn’t approached it differently.
A song will always contain the producer’s individual touch, but I think that flavour
comes from how the producer constructs the track to suit what the artist envisions. I
try to give as much material to my artist as possible, and that spurs us to go create
something that’s far more collaborative than the original demo.
Q: Have you come up with any songs you’re particularly proud of?
A: I really like Ruby’s song, Kill Your Darlings. It’s very good, and she’s very good at what
she does. It was fun having certain ideas get kind of shut down; with the songwriting
process, I’m always getting the artists to think about what the song shouldn’t sound
like so we know how it should sound. When I brought Ruby something like a drum
track or lyric suggestion, she was quick to say if she didn’t like it.
That’s great; then I don’t have to think about it anymore, and I get a better
understanding of what the artist does want. Having conviction in what you want just
means that I can suggest ideas that are keepers later, and I think that
communication is why I was able to get the most out of Kill Your Darlings.
Q: When you’re working with artists who compose genres outside your specialty, does
it have any influence on your own work?
A: For sure, I think we’d be bad creative practitioners if we didn’t pull inspiration from
the people around us and every part of our lives. It’s useful for me to get inside the
heads of people who approach music differently, especially working with people like
Ruby Elizabeth or Soleil on the main Vermilion roster.
One thing I’ve taken away from their process is approaching the songwriting before
considering production. I’ve always filled my computer with a bunch of beats and
kind of cannibalised them into a final product, but a lot of pop musicians start with
the guitar and notepad and let the performance of the song embed itself into the
songwriting more than I usually do.
I produce pop music. Weird pop music, but it’s still pop music, so hearing different
versions of the genre and understanding how the artist has come to make decisions
is something super useful to me as a producer.
Q: Do you have any advice for young artists coming into an industry environment for
the first time?
A: If something doesn’t sound good, don’t do it.
I know that sounds stupid and obvious, but I think part of killing your ego during the
writing process is recognising when your song kind of becomes its own entity,
almost like it doesn’t belong to you anymore. It can be difficult for us artists to
surrender the specific vision we have for the song and let it exist for what it is.
Even if it’s part of your original plan, if it doesn’t suit the song you’re writing right now,
don’t do it. You can always write another song; there’s no limit. Just because this
track doesn’t sound or feel the exact way you wanted doesn’t mean you should give it
up. Do what’s best for the song in front of you.
That’s why collaboration is so awesome. Two brains are better than one, especially if
they’re working towards the same goals.